Historical Document · 1945
TICOM I-6: Interrogation of Lt. Muentz, OKM, on the M-209 (6 June 1945)
Interrogation of a German naval cryptanalyst on reading M-209 traffic.
Historical Document · 1945
Interrogation of a German naval cryptanalyst on reading M-209 traffic.
TI CO¥/I.6 SEDRET z 1945. Distribution Bri t i sh U.S . OP=20-G 2 copies (via Lt. EaChus ) (via LtaCol. Hilles) G-2 S.S.A. 2 c op ies (vi hI j or Seaman) Direct or , S. I .D. ETOUS (via Lt.Col. Johnson) Dir ector D.D. 3. D.D.4. D.D. ( .S . ) D.D. (M. VI . ) D.D. (A.S.) A. D. (C.C.R. ) S.A.C. t. Col. J ohn '"'on 2 copi es 1iaj or Seaman Lt. Eachus I nternal TlCOM Chairman Odr . Bacon Ca p t. Cowan Lt. Fehl Cdr . luackenzie W/ Cd r . Oes er Cdr. T dy TI COLFi l e . IJ\ I 6th June 1945. Captain 1.1-.1. Campbell, I.C . Lieutenant A.P. Fehl, S.C . .~_. .. . Lieutenant Comman d er H. Campa d.gne , U. S.!I~ .R. visited Chalfont P/W cage, C.S.D.r.C., to interrogate tt.d.l1.. lrIuentz , about which the following wa s found. Lt. d.R. lIUENTZ Seekriegsleit.4jllljO.K. M. (D:tx 1.6.45.) Until 1942 pjw served in the Army wi th a n i n t e rpr e t e r unit . He was recalled from France to Berlin and trans ferred to th e Navy. Only training took place in Berlin, whe r e he had a 6 weeks' course for Y-service. . After this he was assigned to O. K.M. in the Tirpitzufer, wher e his work consisted of decyphering messages. The work of the Y-service is divided into (1) intercepting; (2) decypher:ing; and 0) evaluating. P/W remained i n the dooyr;hering section throughout his entire care er. Because of bombing on the 26th November 1943, t he unit was moved t o Eberswalde and remained until the 1st £.'l arch 1945. After that t h ey were constantly on the move, first to Sengwarden, then to Aurich, at Neumuenster and finally reached Flensburg at the end of April 194 5 . At that time he was called to Gluecksburg to be interpreter to Admi r a l LANGE, who wa s expecting a visit f rom an Eng'Li.sh Admiral. His ser vices we r e not required and he returned to Flensburg. After the surrender he was assigned to be interpreter to K. B. S . FRIEDRICHS, who was called to Montgomery's H.Q. at i,iuenchen-Gladbach. Because he was accused of giving the Hitler s a l ut e t o a sentry he was r emoved to a pjw Camp, although he does not recollect the incident and says for reasons of tact and objection to that form of salute, he would certainly not have consciously given the salute. pjw was born in England in 1908 and lived here urrt i.L after the last war (1920). His father was forced to leave England in 1919 and the family followed ham to Germany. He speaks Engli sh fluently , though not perfectly and is quite prepared to answer any ~estions -a b out the Y-service. His particular work was connected wit h t h e Hagelin system whi ch he said was used by the Americans in the ll!ed i terranean and Far East. They were successful in breaking this syetem only under very special conditions. I. O.' s Note: It is suggested that the section interested should interview him. P/W entered a cryptanalytic office in JlID e 1942, continued therein, with one short interruption, until the end of the war, April 1945 . His organisation was part of 0.K.11., and was headed by Kpt v z s S, KUPFER, and directed technically by ORR TRANOW. I t was divided into three (or more) sections, for coping with English, ~erican, and Russian systems respectively. The head of the American section was ORR FRANKE (last seen in Berlin), that of the Russian was Amt s r a t SCHWABE. The English seo'tion was headed by TRANOW. TRANOW And FRANKE were veterans i.xl c:r:yptanalysis from the laet wa r, -thp. latter especially wa s very ab l e . When in RAl'-'lin the organisation h:l.d Some wor k was done on Swedish. -2 In November 1943 bomb ed out, an d moved to EbQn:rrYa1d e , 't; ~ 100 or 200 people. This number was subsequently cut in half' . '.EarJs' :W 1 945 the group moved to Flenabux:g/Neumuonster with about 80 persons. ~ti sh Systems They were able to read continuously for several years what they called GALLEON, a 5-digit code with 10, 000 groups, recyphered by a subtractor. The book was captured. They could read LOXO, a 4-letter code, with 3 or 4 hour time l ag. It took 10-12 hours to get complete code. They also read COFOX. They read what they called :MUENCHEN BRAUN and lvIUENCHEN BLAU, a warship code in 1942 and 1943 . It subsequently changed, when they succeeded in showing that it employ ed a stencil, but never rea d it, al though they worked out the stencil. This information reached the prisoner indirectly. American Ciphers The p risoner himself worked on Hagelin. The Na vy offered few depths, and they read only t wo or three days altogether. They spent a gre at deal of t ime on a t he or et i ca l solution independant of depths, based on the word separators. This method worked on one trial day with 30,000 letters , and failed on another. To guarantee success, a 100,000 would be needed. f \ J OlCVI/Chi worked with great s uccess on Arrrw Hagelin, getting out Sdf. Dr. STEINBERG and Uffz. Dr . LUCIUS work ed on this. They had a technique for g et t i ng true settings from relative ones j t he prisoner is preparing a write-up of this. It will be sent to Commander Dudley-Smith, War St at i on , via N.I.D.1 P/W. 1most days by means of d ep t hs , with 24 hour lag. I I The prisoner had succeeded in getting th e pins and lugs from 38 letters of key; 100 would nearly always succeed. The Luftwaffe had a trick method of dragging a known wor d wh i ch 'was very fas t. This met hod was in fact known t o us. A system with ext ernal indicators DUPYH was solved c ompletely, just before its use was abandoned. Others, CEMEK and HlMEK, were analysed a nd thought to be a machine. Al s o othe rs with s imil ar di scriminant s • Russian The prisoner knew little of these syst ems. A Lt. FROWEIN, l as t at Fl en sburg, had wor k ed in t his section . He would prob ably b e cooperative. He had also partici pated in an analysis of the ENIGMA machine which l a s t ed three or four months, and which brought out a t h eor et i c al solution. SEC ~"E - 1 SUP? f - It TARY ~"TERROGAT ION Lt. D.R. !~iTZ , 18 July 1945 Refe r en e r-6. Al t hou PH had no pers onal exper i ence wi t h the Arll\Y 11 • 209, it was thought deBi ra bl e to question him f urther for t he sake of completene ss. Ti com 18 July 1945 Br i t i Dh Di r ector D. D. 3 D. D.4 D. D. ( N. S. ) D. D. (MW) D.D. (A.S .) A.D.(C .C. R,)( 2) Lt . Col. Leathem No. of pa.ges 2: u. s. OP20 G(2) (Via Lt. p endergr as s ) G- 2(v h Lt . col . Hilles) S.S. A. ( 2) (via Ma j or s eaman ) D~r ect or, S.I.D. ~ TO U~ (Via Lt. Col. Johnson ) T ICO; ~ cha i r m'J.n S. A.C. ( 2) Cdr. Bacon Cdr. a cKen- i c Cdr. Ta ndy Lt. ~ol. J ohns on Lt . Cdr . ':n50n -a j or Ojeurrnn Lt. Vance Lt. Eachus oapt. Cowan Lt. F-3hl icom Files (2) 2 C/J "" > \ ~ Cll ;.rc :;,0 n° :? ~c r 0''= .... l~ -. -~ r~ ~~ \ =' .a> ~ - ... .f ~\ -2 SEERET Refe r o nc o Ti c0roVI- 6 ~ up::.-) leme nt D. ry QU<:)stions put to LT. D. R. l 'illENTZ a t the r -o que : t of Hi ,j o r Semran. 1 G J ul y 1:7 4-5 -- Q u c ~ t i o ns: 1 . How ma ny Ar my Hlt L;81i n Key s w:.: . r . b r oken PCI' dD.Y ? 2 . On :.rrli eh f r o nt s a n d whun ? 3. .h.i.ch units v{v r o conc erne d? 4-. Wr He a bri ef outli n e o f t h e th<.'oretical s ol ut i o D. of Ha(301 i n b r.a e d o n Wo r d S epaX'a t.cre , Answ e r s 1. No t k n own , but a ev c r a l , 2 . PVl firs t met DR. S'E EII\'BERG a nd DR. LU ZI U~ in the sumner of' 194-3. They wor-e hav i.n g s u c c e s s then a nd c o nt i nu d to b e suc8'0ssful a s far a s PW k!.1oWS up to t h e un d of t h e '"Ilr . ?': b elieves th::'l t t h ey a Lac ha d s ome succ e as pri or to 194-3, p oss it l y a s ea r ly a s 194-1. P\Y k no ws only of s uc ces ~ 8 S i ll t .he Mo cl i t e r-ro .ne n n theat e r ; t h e s e cove red t.h e Land.i.ngs in No rt h Af rica ,S i cil y a n d Italy. 3. No KnO\vle dge. 4-. Pi! ic pr.e-)aring an outline 8.8 r'equ e s t e d , It eho u.l. d b e availa ble in a bo ut u we 0k~ I Q 0 ~~